Mike Elliot  0:00  
Initially, it's just people that I already have relationships with and I've worked alongside and ministry through conversations, as well like, well, what are you using for first time guest processes? There are different things like that, and, and wonder like, and they're like, Oh, we really don't have anything. When you talk about those benefits people are, like, really understand the importance and the power of using the software. It's building that relationship and helping people and so through that conversation, then I'm like, Hey, I have a solution for you, after listening to them and be like, Hey, this is how we can help you to do better.

Nina Hampton  0:36  
Hello, and welcome to the Tech in Church Podcast where we talk to everyday church communicators who use simple tech tools to go from frazzled to focused. I'm Nina Hampton, and I'm with my co-host, Jeanette Yates. We believe that you should spend less time worrying about technology and more time doing what you love in your ministry and in your personal life. 

Jeanette Yates  0:56  
We are excited to share this conversation Nina and I had with Mike Elliot, an ordained minister, tech enthusiast, former kids ministry pastor, Mike shares how he still uses technology and his ongoing relationships with fellow pastors to serve the kingdom of God during his time between official ministry appointments.

Nina Hampton  1:15  
Yeah, and I just personally like I thought this conversation was so relatable because every church leader or volunteer pastor or ministry leader, whatever your title is, goes through a period of transition, you know. In that waiting time, it's really easy to get disconnected and feel like the church is kind of too far out of reach. But I think Mike does a beautiful job of staying connected and serving and using his gifts and talents to really be a Kingdom Builder and to serve the Big C Church, which is just awesome to see.

Jeanette Yates  1:44  
Yeah, he reminds us that even if you don't have an official volunteer position or ministry appointment or job at the church that we're really all in ministry no matter what phase we are in our walk, now my faith walk. So it was a really refreshing conversation I thought.

Nina Hampton  2:01  
Yes, very much so and he just takes like every opportunity really to just share and equip and it was good to just have like a just a chill conversation. Yeah, like we were just kind of shooting the breeze. So...

Jeanette Yates  2:11  
We even did a little, like tech horror stories. Things like...

Nina Hampton  2:15  
Hey, yeah, sharing old war stories of times where we were, we were struggling through serving man. So without further ado, let's get into the interview.

Jeanette Yates  2:27  
Hey, today, we are here with Mike Elliot, one of our Text in Church community members, and a good friend of mine on  Facebook. And we're so glad to have him with us today. Mike has served in kids ministry in multiple churches. He's also worked with youth. He's done it media. He's run a graphic and print company on the side. In addition to all of these ministry, he graduated with a Bachelor's in Kids Ministry from Central Bible College, and he is an ordained minister in the Assemblies of God. Welcome, Mike to the podcast. I know that is a lot of stuff. Mike, can you tell us more about your ministry journey? Like how did you get into ministry in the first place?

Mike Elliot  3:11  
So some of that was actually starting back in youth, like youth group.

Nina Hampton  3:17  
And that's where it always starts.

Mike Elliot  3:19  
Like, and I was thinking about it the other day, I was like, they needed someone to run the transparencies and youth group. And that's where it started.

Nina Hampton  3:27  
That's a deep cut, man. I don't know that everybody's gonna get that reference. They need someone to run the transparencies and youth group. Okay. Yes.

Mike Elliot  3:35  
And like, I mean, and I was doing enough where I actually got it down to like a science because like, those are not easy to deal with, like, because you had to, like pull them up. And I was like, You know what, let me adjust the mirror and bring that up, instead of having to pull this thing up. And then that eventually became working at that church. They're like, Hey, can you help us with the PowerPoint and everything for the lyrics? So then once I jumped onto that, and then I got into some of that, and then, you know, video work. Yeah. Through the process. So then, and all that and then eventually made it over like, ministry stuff, side of things, going to college and getting that degree in kids ministry and working with kids. And I didn't jump out. Right from the beginning working with kids. It was straight into the media. Yeah. So and even at college, I remember sitting at college at one of our events, and I'm like, the lyrics are not moving.

Jeanette Yates  4:29  
We all know.

Mike Elliot  4:30  
I have, like, what's going on? Into, like, I get so frustrated, and I think it was like during our orientation or something. I was there's like the first day or something like even like when the parents were there. So I'm like, I woke up like, do you guys need some help? Sure. We'll take it. And then from that moment, it just continued, like, continued on. 

Jeanette Yates  4:52  
That is so funny. There's so many memes out there, where it's like, somebody's like, staring. I was like, this is what the poor worship, the sound booth tech sees on Sunday mornings, when everyone's kind of just like looking back and like staring at the sound booth guy because they can't. The slides not moving fast enough or the lyrics. There's a spelling error in the lyrics that's always fun. 

Nina Hampton  5:12  
Pro presenter won't load. Yep. Yeah.

Jeanette Yates  5:15  
So the struggle is real for sure.

Mike Elliot  5:18  
So in college in our music ministry, like we had to take a music class, and we actually had a book that's out of print. And I wish I still had it actually, it was called Get a Hiant Hat Rack. And it talks about all the different hats you wear in ministry, and it talked about one in that sat like in a sound capacity. And the sound one, it talks about how a sound guy purposely he's like, every time something goes wrong, it goes right back. They look right back at the media person. And he goes, You know what, let's fix that. He goes, Let's not let them look at me every time something goes wrong, but all the time. Then he's like, so then he would wear any crazy hat just to bring attention. Like, let's not focus on the bad. Let's focus on every moment.

Nina Hampton  6:03  
I'm on the production team at my church, I may start doing it. I may start just wearing outrageous hats in the back. So like, you're gonna look at me anyway. So I might as well give you something to look at.

Jeanette Yates  6:11  
I'm thinking of several members of our community that I'm like, Oh, this is they're gonna love this. They're gonna love that idea. That's awesome.

Mike Elliot  6:18  
I mean and I actually because of being with kids, I have all these different hats and everything. 

Jeanette Yates  6:24  
You probably have a hall of costumes, all the wigs, whatnot. 

Mike Elliot  6:28  
There was a party city on Long Island when I was there, like that was going out of business and clearance. I'm like walking through, I'm like, I'm grabbing this, this, this, this and this. Like, I capitalized on this really cheap.

Jeanette Yates  6:39  
Gotta get all that armor, that plastic armor they have. So when you're doing the Roman soldier. 

Nina Hampton  6:46  
When you're going to the armor of God, you have the representation.

Mike Elliot  6:49  
That's where I use balloons for that. I'll do like real interesting for that stuff. 

Nina Hampton  6:53  
Oh, gotcha. 

Jeanette Yates  6:53  
Please tell me you can twist balloons, you can do balloon art.

Nina Hampton  6:57  
I think it's a requirement to get your BA in Kids Ministry to be able to do balloon art. I think it's a part of your final, like, your senior project. I'm pretty sure. So with that, that's kind of how you got your start, but kind of tell us, what just like life and your current season looks like for you right now? Just kind of being in ministry and what all that looks like.

Mike Elliot  7:17  
Yeah, so currently, I am in a what's called a sabbatical, you know, type of rest dealing with ministry. You deal with different types of people, different types of leaders. Yeah. And so in that process, in that moment, because we're all human. There's pain that happens and takes place. You're thinking one way of something, the leader thinks of it in a different way. And so because of that sometimes, because you have your own background stuff, it hits you, and you respond in different ways. Because of all that going on, it just kind of built up over the years. And so just this past August, or whatever, I had a time of between myself, and leadership were like, 'Okay, it's time for me to move on from the church.' So it was hard, because when you pour yourself into something, it's like, for me, it's just like an attachment. And I'm like, man, but I think it's God purposely put me through that situation to really rip the band aid off. He had to drag me out, kicking and screaming and stuff, and really make it worth like, Okay, it's time to move on. And so then now, in the last probably five months, I've been in this season of rest, focusing on God, doing a lot of stuff for emotional health, and all that. I've also had the opportunity to, in that moment go through a leadership class. That's actually an eight-month class. So we have once a month these classes that we're doing that's from the local area. And it's great, because it's actually pouring into my life in so many ways. Like, one of the cool things is they ran us through an emotional health quiz, or like an assessment actually. One of the top things that said, Oh, you're very good and helpful, like, that's one of your top things. I'm like, yep. And then he pointed out, like, some of the bad areas for me to like, really focus on and work with. So which is great. And so with that, but then even in the midst of that, like I've been having the opportunities to jump in and help churches that I've worked with in the past, and just kind of continue helping them in any of their media and tech areas, as well as new churches, people who are friends who just took over a lead pastor position, or in my talks with them said, Hey, we can really use some help in this area.

Jeanette Yates  9:33  
I love that what you learned during your having this time of sabbatical, you're focusing on reconnecting with God and reconnecting with yourself and your emotional health. And one of the things that you learn is like, 'I'm really great at helping people' and then God provides all these opportunities for you to help other churches doing the thing, using the talent that he has given you to help people but also using the skills that he's given you and your passion for technology and all that kind of stuff. Can you talk a little bit about how you, in this period of time where you're working with this church or talking to this church or this ministry, this nonprofit? How you go about connecting with them, and then talking to them a little bit more about their challenges? Like, how do you connect with them initially?

Mike Elliot  10:20  
Initially, it's just people that I already have relationships with and I've worked alongside and ministry. Through conversations, I ask them all what are you using for the first-time guest processes? There are different things like that, and they're like, 'Oh, we really don't have anything.' And so, or I'd tell them, 'Hey, these are things that I've used. Text in Church for churches, and these are like...Reading off to them that comment, the responses from people through Text in Church, and they're like, 'Wow!' That's like, people are blown away when they hear that. I was just at a concert thing the other day, and I was telling them like, a little bit of what I was doing. I'm reading off, like not reading off, just kind of sharing some of the responses from families, and people who have replied back to the text and like, wow. The peoples, like, their jaw just dropped. Wow, okay, that's...and so when you talk about those benefits, peoplereally understand the importance and the power of using the software. then, because it's building that relationship and helping people. And so through that conversation, then I'm like, 'Hey, I have a solution for you' after listening to them and they'd be like, Hey, this is how we can help you to do better.

Jeanette Yates  11:30  
Right! Speaking of solutions, what is the biggest problem when you're talking to your friends that are working in ministry? And what is their biggest problem that you usually are kind of engaging in that conversation about? What are something that they're really struggling with do you think?

Mike Elliot  11:44  
I want to say usually, it's that follow-up process. So, one of the churches I'm working with, the pastor jokingly said to me, I think it was a few weeks ago. He was, 'Oh, so now we can't let anyone fall through the cracks anymore. Just in a sarcastic way. Just like he understood, as I was talking about, even though they're trying to, he knows the importance of it. And he's just saying, yeah!

Jeanette Yates  12:07  
But it happens. He was more like, yeah, people fall through the cracks. What are we going to do about it? You're like, oh, well, you can do this about it.

Mike Elliot  12:14  
Exactly. And he's like, oh, okay, now we can do it. Now, we're gonna have a system, where that's not gonna happen.

Nina Hampton  12:20  
Now, we can actually take accountability for this. Yeah.

Mike Elliot  12:23  
Exactly. And that's where some of those things that I'm training and working with them with is the accountability process, even when I did the training. I did the Planning Center training with them this last Tuesday. And that was also one of the things he goes, Wow, like, the systems that I'm showing them. They're using their software is yes, the different workflows and the steps and the next steps. It's going to help them take things to the next level as a church. And so that's where I've been really focused with and just really helping churches to do ministry in a better way through the use of technology.

Nina Hampton  12:55  
Yeah, that's great. And so like talking about specifically all of these churches, which I think is just beautiful, that the churches that you're helping are places that you used to work. The fact that you still have those relationships, and those bridges, I think, is wonderful. But as you're working with them, what are the three tech tools that you see them using? And I'm saying like, probably most often, or ones that you maybe recommend more than others? 

Mike Elliot  13:18  
So definitely, the first one is Text in Church. Second one is Planning Center. And then I also recommend to them using actually Canva, because it's so easy to deal with. And they've taken things with that to the next level with how they're operating. When they will, when I saw the future of, you can create graphics, import names and all that. That makes it so much easier, especially like if you're gonna highlight people's birthdays. Yeah, with Text in Church, you can automate it with just a text. But then if you want to really get specific, you can go in, create those graphics and all say, 'Nice!' Happy Birthday, and I did this with the kids. I created a nice, simple, happy birthday, put all their names in it, saved them, went back and scheduled on their birthdays just for that month. I said, just telling the parents Hey, just let you know, I want to say happy birthday to your kid. Can you show them this or show them as or something like that? So in the past, like wow, okay, because for me, that was always something. It's important to recognize birthdays. But at the same time, I always had, like, following up and remembering when birthdays were... that was always an issue for me. So once I saw 'Oh, I can schedule this ahead of time.' This is great! Creating those systems in place for that.

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Jeanette Yates  15:39  
Canva was great when it first came out because it was free and easy, or cheap and easy-to-use. And then now they've really just upped their game with the animated graphic, all that kind of stuff. So they continue to save the church media.

Nina Hampton  15:52  
I will say I look like a boss because I use Canva. And I use their animated graphics. I had a presentation and everyone was like, 'Oh my gosh! This is so professional.' I'm like, thanks. I made it. It was me. I didn't have any help. Yeah, I did. It was Canva. Canva helped me

Jeanette Yates  16:09  
That is literally like, we went from using googling images and using clipart to doing stuff on Canva. So when people thought that I had a master's degree in graphic design when I first started, now they know the truth, but because everyone uses Canva.

Nina Hampton  16:28  
It's called Canva templates. Oh, but

Jeanette Yates  16:31  
If I'm not careful, just so you know, for any of you out there, this may give you some hope, any of you watching or listening. Some people just still will screw up a Canva template including me. So I'm just saying if you're one of those people I see you. I know because I will mess it up and then have to start over. I'll be like, This doesn't look like it.

Nina Hampton  16:49  
Rule of thumb. Just stick to the template. Okay, if you're not competent, don't get fancy. You don't need to customize it. Don't make it your own. Just put in your own words. Okay, it's true.

Mike Elliot  16:59  
That's one of the great things with Canva. For me, one of the churches that I was at, I did all their graphic and media work. So, I know, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign. That's what I was doing. And so and then one, when Canva was coming out, started to come out, one of their music department, the people that were working on that, they were using Canva. I was like, okay, whatever. And then it slowly began to get big with people. And I'm, yeah, this is a lot easier for me to deal with than going in and jumping on Photoshop and dealing with all that. I can create something quick, easy, and get it done. Because that's one thing that if you're not careful, for me, at least for me, I can spend so much time on a graphic, and it eats up my time. Yeah. And I have to learn to back-off and be okay, not be so perfect or polished on some things and just like, let it go. 

Jeanette Yates  17:53  
Yep, the hardest part of my job is finding the perfect image to something, I will spend way too long. And the real creation app looking for that perfect, whatever.

Nina Hampton  18:05  
For me, it's I haven't done it in a few years, but I'm kind of getting back into it guys. And it's church merch. Church merchandise as we like to call it at our church.

Nina Hampton  18:08  
Oh, I'm gonna write that. I love a little whatever you call those words that you mesh together.

Nina Hampton  18:17  
I can't even take credit for that. A shout out to Brittany, my friend Brittany. She's the one who created that term. But I will spend just an unholy amount of time making sure that a graphic is like perfectly centered. Because that's the thing if we print that thing, especially like Vision Sunday just happened. So we were all talking about Vision Sunday shirts, and hoodies and stuff. If that thing goes to print and it is not centered, I'm in trouble. You know what I mean? And so like, yeah, I get it. I understand I will waste my life on Photoshop and Illustrator and all the things. So bless the Lord for Canva.

Mike Elliot  18:50  
And I've had those issues like a few times. So one time, dealing one of the places were working with I did the t shirt, you know designed for them. And I wasn't. And I learned from my mistake. When I sent it to print and process, I wasn't 100% clear on giving directions to the t-shirt place. And so and it was still under like when I had the business stuff to like, from that point forward, I realized I'm measuring exactly from the column like literally the graphic. I wish like the graphic was like starting here. So it was under like the armpit areas basically down as like too far down. And so when they got it, this isn't right, and there's nothing you can do because it's done and they needed it.

Nina Hampton  19:36  
No, it's printed man, if that's what it is.

Mike Elliot  19:38  
And so like from that point forward, I started to realize just as I did for people who are dealing with them, I would now use from the collar down. This is what I'm looking for from the back of the collar down. This is like the inches I'm looking for. That way they know clear cut. There's no messing around with that. 

Nina Hampton  19:57  
You can't say you didn't know because I told you.

Mike Elliot  19:59  
I always check the proofs.  Always make sure like proofs are big, looking at all details with that. And then I had a graph of one suit that I was dealing with that. We send it to print. I looked at it before we sent to print. The church administrator looked at it before going into print. And we printed, I think it was like 30,000 of these like Christmas bulletin things, because they would put it into the local newspaper and put it as an insert. So it was like the regular bulletin we would use in the church for like the mud. But then they would use it as an opportunity to kind of give awareness for Christmas. And so somehow, in my saving process, or working with layers with InDesign, I clicked off the layer for the logo. And so these went to print without the logo on top.

Nina Hampton  20:46  
I'm already stressed out. Well, as soon as you said 30,000, I was like, I'm already stressed out. 

Mike Elliot  20:50  
Oh, yeah. So things were not like...it didn't go well after they came back. And then it was well, unfortunately, that was a huge cost. And then they had to be reprinted. And I think we had to rush the print job to to get them that like. So. Yeah.

Jeanette Yates  21:05  
I love that you're sharing all of these stories. Because I think everyone listening is like nodding their head vigorously or they're driving. They're like honking their horns like yes, yes, this is...we can all relate. I had a mishap with some Christmas postcards that we printed in house. And we used a bunch of red ink, and it did not go over well. And so we had like a little crime scene situation. So you know, we all have those stories oh, remember this? And it seems like the end of the world at the time, right? Oh, yeah, you're like, I've just wasted a ton of money or this mess is going to be hard to clean up. Or I inadvertently invited the community to a free meal at our church that we were not having things like that. No big deal. But what I love and what your story of this time and your ministry this season, and your ministry is really an illustration of that God works in all of it. He shows up in all of our mess, and all of our mistakes. And all of those moments in ministry where we're not sure what we're supposed to be doing. And he just shows us what the next step is. And I love that during this time of you focusing on your sabbatical time, which we don't talk like, there needs to be more conversations about that could be a whole, like spin off podcast of sabbatical and emotional health and all of those things. 

Jeanette Yates  22:34  
But in this time, that you're still able to find ways to serve and be a Kingdom Builder, which is great. I want to switch gears a little bit here. Now that we've shared all the tech tools and tech scarries. And just talk a little bit because this is something I think we can all relate to. Because you know, the three of us and most of the people that are listening, we all love tech. That's why, you know, we're in this field. We love using, finding a new technology, figuring out how it works, all that kind of stuff. But then that sometimes makes it harder to unplug, to not be connected. And so one of the questions we've been asking all of our guests here is what do you do? Tell us how you unplug from technology in general from ministry. You are kind of unplugged from like, organized ministry now but how do you take a break from your life? Like what how do you do that? 

Mike Elliot  23:26  
Yeah, and that's something I've had to learn to. One of the things I did a while back when there was a company that you could buy a monthly pass for movies, you can see unlimited movies, for this one little price and then they finally realized, Oh, we're losing money on this. Then they went down like and stuff like Oh, then they started limiting to like three movies. And it was like a crazy thing. So that was something I did. I would take that and utilize that as an opportunity. Oh, I can go watch The Greatest Showman like three times. There was one that I think it was back when the movie is Paul and I can only imagine we're out back when those came out. So I went and saw those like three or four times because I could because I had this. It was my way of disconnecting. I remember I think I went and saw The Greatest Showman I think it was like after Easter or something like that like after services on a Sunday boom. Go sit, chill by myself in the movie theater and not have to worry about that. Doing that. Going on hikes. Very good for just the nature and walking through. That's some of the stuff that I do enjoy for that unplugging process.

Jeanette Yates  24:37  
I love being in nature. Like we were talking before I hit record. I love hiking and walking. I do not like the beach. You mentioned that you do hit the beach every now and then and walk along the beach and take great photos apparently. If you guys are listening to this podcast you'll have to hop on when we drop this on YouTube and check out the photo behind my chair today. He has a great photo he took in Maine, but he's a photographer too. In addition, all that other stuff I mentioned at the top of the show, but yeah, I do love nature. And I also when you were talking about the movies, it reminded me of when I was in college, whenever I needed a break from roommates, or parents or whatever, I would go to the movies by myself. It was the greatest thing. I would just get my popcorn and my diet coke. And I just love that. It is  great. It is technology, but in a different way. Like it's different.

Nina Hampton  25:27  
I think it's art. Yeah, yeah. Okay, there we go. I personally, I love being in nature as well. Just not in Missouri. That's where I live. And if I'm in nature in like Colorado, or well, sometimes Florida, because Florida y'all got these lizards. Love you so much, Jeanette. Yeah, there's a lot of things that freaks me out. So yeah, if I'm not in Missouri nature, I love it. But we got mosquitoes and moisture. Yeah, so I'm not not a fan. 

Mike Elliot  25:52  
Yeah, I mean, like one of the places I like moved from. So I just, it was literally I was walking distance to the beach because of where I live, which is great. That was one of those things. And then I even this week, I think it was this last Saturday. I went down to the local maritime aquarium and walk through there just to unplug. I actually jumped on the boat for seal watching. There were no seals, unfortunately. But I got to see him in the aquarium afterwards.

Nina Hampton  26:19  
So we're talking about specifically unplugging, which is all great. I think, you know, in every guest that we've had on and hearing about that how they unplug. It's helpful for me, because I'm somebody, it's hard for me to unplug. I'll be that honest, I'll be real. And so that's so encouraging. But I think also on the on the flip side of that talking about what we love in ministry is just as important, especially as being in a season of rest. And in a season a sabbatical, right. It's kind of a time to remember those things specifically, especially when we just come maybe came out of a rough season of ministry to remember like what the good was. So Mike, if I had to ask that question to you, what are some things that you love to do in your ministry? Like this is my why, in a way.

Mike Elliot  27:01  
Definitely. I guess it comes from helping people and seeing people thrive. So part of it is just so whether I can help them, walk through a situation, help them solve something, help them to grow spiritually. I love the fun creative side with kids ministry. When I got to get the last church, I decked out our kids stage as an entire beach. I brought sand in and put the sand down on the stage. And everything. Oh, yeah. Like I did that. They asked question about like I don't think you should do this. The lead pastor was like, as long as he gets rid of it, we're cool. And we can make sure the kids don't touch it. 

Jeanette Yates  27:42  
Like I just was thinking about our person, Mary at our church that's in charge of like cleaning up after everything. She'd be like, what? Excuse me? What is this, but?

Nina Hampton  27:50  
I don't think it's kids ministry. It's not actually kids ministry, if you've got to do something, and somebody says, I don't think you should be doing this. That's like the hallmark of like a kid and youth ministry. I don't think that's a good idea. Oh, you know great. Then, I'm going to do it,

Jeanette Yates  28:03  
Then it must be the right thing to do it.

Mike Elliot  28:05  
So it's like that creative process. I mean, I ended up taking this and I put it all in buckets that I think I got from Home Depot or whatever. And then I put out on the next door neighbor up free sand. And I had someone within that day respond back, like really? Free Sand? Great. So and they needed it for the driveway. I was like. 

Jeanette Yates  28:23  
People will take anything. 

Mike Elliot  28:25  
I was like, yes. It was like that was easy.

Jeanette Yates  28:29  
Oh my gosh, that is great. That's awesome. Well, you know, Mike, I think this conversation is going to be helpful for so many people because your journey, your story is so relatable. I mean, so timely, I think a lot of people are gonna appreciate listening to it. But if you had one bit of encouragement that you would like to tell our fellow church communicators that are often overwhelmed, what would you say to them? What encouragement would you give them?

Mike Elliot  28:57  
Definitely, of course, you're not alone, but also take time to focus on you. Because you can't help others and be involved in ministry, if you're not taking care of yourself. That's one of the things I was learning. It's so important, like, That's why on airplanes, they tell you put your oxygen mask on first. Because if you don't have that, you can't help the person next to you. And one of the books that I've actually been reading in this process, I actually had to read it for a leadership class. It's Ordering your Private World by Gordon McDonald. Very good book on top of that emotionally, healthy, spirituality, which they actually have a 40-day devotional that you can download or buy the book and go through that process. Because if you're in that state where yeah, there's a lot of hurt that goes on and frustration, especially from creatives and technology people, you want to see things going one way but leadership wants it going a different way. So there's humbling experiences in that process like you develop a lot of thick skin but in that process is hurts bruises and wounds that happen.

Jeanette Yates  30:03  
Well, Mike, thank you so much for joining us today. And we will see you again soon in the Text in Church Facebook community because that's where we always are. And we just appreciate you so much for your time. Yeah.

Nina Hampton  30:16  
Thank you for your vulnerability. It's yeah. It's very necessary. So I think a lot of people, oh, I know that I've benefited from this conversation. I know that a ton of other people will too. So. Thanks.

Jeanette Yates  30:32  
Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you want to watch the full interview or see a full list of tech tools mentioned in today's podcast, head to our show notes at podcast.textinchurch.com and remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen so you can spend less time worrying about technology and more time doing what you love in your ministry and in your personal life.

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